Page 1431 in Whiskey Peak
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Average Rating: 5
Number of people who have voted: 2

By the same author as Grand Line 3.5

Kaze Koichi

1st May 2020, 4:52 AM

Great gob, Nat. Now he is not going to share this information.

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1st May 2020, 8:43 AM

Eh that's not a bad thing. Seems Cory was working up to do some metagaming, and seems to me Nat was very deliberate in her interruption.

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1st May 2020, 9:03 AM

I don't think it was metagaming personally. It seemed more like a deduction based on the information he legitimately had available. That said, his teasing was slowing things down and disrupting play. So I do agree that Nat seems to have interupted deliberately to put people back on course.

Or on the side where I agree with you, if Cory has worked something out Nat doesn't want him to just spill it OC like that =p (That said, everything Zoro was saying would work in character.)

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1st May 2020, 9:48 AM

Metagaming as a concept is dumb from the start. It's always better when players can use their own skills and knowledge in a campaign instead of having to pretend they don't know stuff they know.

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Mr. Guy

1st May 2020, 9:57 AM

Not really. It's all about separating out-of-game and in-game logic.
For example, one of current characters is this cheerful, boisterious, but dumb as a sack of bricks barbarian. If I use out-of-game knowledge like the weaknesses and abilities of various creatures we fight or analyze a puzzle or riddle better than any of the high Int characters then not only does it not make sense in game how he would have that knowledge, but I'm also negating the flaw that I should have for taking a low Int score.
Even worse is when the out-of-game knowledge is something a character *couldn't* know. Like suddenly prepping yourself for battle with buffs and other such just because the GM asks you to place your tokens on the map in marching order.

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4th May 2020, 10:45 PM

I mostly agree except in the case of things your group has fought before. Like if the group has faced trolls before in another campaign and they encounter one I'd fully expect the party wizard or sorcerer to throw out an acid spell if he has one. Sure that specific character might not know it, but everybody at the table knows the trick so why beat around the bush with dice rolls and just slow things down?

Of course the better solution to this is reskinning stuff so that the party doesn't know what they're fighting. One of my DMs makes sure to change up the stuff he throws at us enough to where we can't meta it and I honestly appreciate it, since it avoids the whole issue and helps make the world feel distinct from generic DnDland.

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1st May 2020, 10:20 AM

I must disagree with you, Zomg. If you want to take advantage of your real-world knowledge, intelligence, etc. that's fine if you pay for it (according to the game system being used). I'm the GURPS fan that reads this strip, so if it cannot be done in 3.5, it definitely can be done there. XD

Of course, GURPS has some "meta" traits that are you more or less spending Character Points to manipulate the game directly. Still an in-game justification, like Luck, Serendipity, the Esoteric Skills, etc.

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1st May 2020, 7:53 PM

No it's dumb cause. For several reasons.

Information provides you choices. Roleplaying is about making choices. Pretending you don't know stuff you know is fundamentally doing the opposite of making choices. It's cutting choices off.

99.99% of the time it is absolutely trivial to figure out an in game reason for why you would know the thing you know.

Everyone's opinion of what exactly constitutes metagaming always differs leading to absolutely pointless arguments.

You constantly have to metagame anyway simply to keep the group together. Metagaming is absolutely critical to make any rpg group function at all.

You get really weird categorizing of some player skills being metagamey while others aren't. So one player knows a bunch of stuff about the monsters in setting, and if he ever tries to apply that everyone screams at him that he's a metagamer, while another player is a real life special forces guy and constantly apply his knowledge of basic tactics to great effect but no one cares... until they do and suddenly the group aren't allowed to retreat and stuff because how could they possible know they're supposed to. And then players start dying.

Also the angry gm made a pretty good post about it as well:

It's a dumb concept that adds nothing to a game and actively takes away from it.

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2nd May 2020, 3:35 AM

There are always mechanics designed to allow people to indulge in knowledge they have in real life. Character classes with skills in knowing stuff could easily know about monster weaknesses and strengths. Martial classes (or characters with military background) could easily know about logistics and battle tactics. That's not metagaming.

Metagaming is when people do not make use of those resources to justify having that level of knowledge. If you make a dumb barbarian, you can't use your real life reasoning skills to solve a puzzle. Why have you made a dumb character in the first place if you want to?! What's the point in having rules if you're just ignoring them if it suits you?

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2nd May 2020, 3:43 PM

Everyone's opinion of what exactly constitutes metagaming always differs leading to absolutely pointless arguments.

If you believe this, then you were just trolling by bringing it up, werent you?

If you don't actually believe what you said, let us know. There are answers to most of what you said, but I'm not going to waste time sharing them if you're not going to actually listen.

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yo go re

1st May 2020, 4:31 PM

But that's the "play" part of roleplaying: you're not you, you're your character. If you were playing a Batman rpg focused on being low-level henchmen and working your way up to major crime bosses, your first move in the game wouldn't be to go attack Bruce Wayne in the middle of the day...

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1st May 2020, 5:21 PM

Totally disagree. It's metagaming to know what "levels" are. If you're Arthur Fleck, you don't know if you're the Joker and don't know if you're Calendar Man. If your plan is to play it safe until you're level 20, that's your plan. If your plan is to become king of Gotham, there is no reason you would go into a tavern to fight rats until you felt "stronger".

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1st May 2020, 6:16 PM

Sometimes knowing about the game mechanics in the game is fun, but usually your character isn't aware of things like levels, they might be aware of reputation or be able to gauge skill and training of someone they're watching though.

Also, if you're a low level thug in Gotham, if the Boss tells you to go into the basement and deal with the rats, you go into the basement and shoot the tied up idiots who talked to the police. Unless you're trying to still have shreds of morality, of course.

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2nd May 2020, 3:56 PM

Sal, you're mostly getting at why I don't play D&D, not why metagaming "can't" be a thing, or is "always" a thing. ;) What you're describing doesn't work in most RPG's I played. A few, sure, but that's mostly because D&D and D&D-inspired games are so popular.

The game's mechanics are an abstraction to help us all understand the world in which we're playing. Sometimes they represent information your character does know, but put into terms you the player can comprehend. They can be used for metagaming, but they usually aren't...

...and of course, some RPG systems don't have such overt labels. D&D has Levels, but (for example) GURPS does not. GURPS does have Character Point totals, but where and how those points were spent matters... especially because things like Disadvantages lower your CP total.

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3rd May 2020, 12:07 PM

D&D literally has spell levels where you can learn specific spells, and you can spend time to research how many HD a creature has for Trap The Soul and spend a very specific amount of money to make it work.

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30th Jul 2021, 4:10 PM

@DeadpanSal i think ho go re comment was'nt about how you character would act "as a level 1" but rather how if you're playing a random Gotham City street-level thug, there is no reason for you character to know that Bruce Wayne is Batman, so you should not act upon this information.
Now if you can find a good reason, in-game, why you character wants to attack Bruce Wayne while not knowing who he is (or exactly because he does'nt know, since after all, a thug would think twice about attacking Batman head-on) then it's alright. And the GM might even appreciate that.
Heck, there would be tons of reasons for criminals to try and attack Wayne, which is probably why it happens ocasionaly in the comics.

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