Page 1474 in Whiskey Peak
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Average Rating: 5
Number of people who have voted: 2


By the same author as Grand Line 3.5
Comments:

educatedtiger




10th Aug 2020, 12:54 AM
"Ahh, the double-retconner."

Gordon is really being kind with his BS. Can't wait to see him finally get booted from the group and how.

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JACK




10th Aug 2020, 1:05 AM
"reach?"

Zoro's using swords, how does he have reach?

Must be one of the made-up things, because I'm pretty sure there's no way in 3.5 to get reach on a medium-sized character without using a reach weapon

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Kittoradra




10th Aug 2020, 1:09 AM

Feats and maneuvers. They're not free and they're not so easy to get as to have everyone make use of them, but they exist. Some are as simple as "you can move to keep up with an enemy as an AoO" and others are literally things like overreaching and stretching to let you hit further than you should

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Phantomdemon




10th Aug 2020, 1:10 AM

Zoro is power built like all hell, and IIRC, he's part Giant.

There's probably some Giant specific feat regarding Range.

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Generic Greg




10th Aug 2020, 1:17 AM

I'd probably assume its more got to do with Zoro having some combination of abilities that BASICALLY give or takes allows him to just attack at any range within his movement space. So if you're literally in a range he could move within that turn, he can attack you within that turn. Give or take.

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Rudedog

Rudedog




10th Aug 2020, 1:54 AM

There is a feat that lets you take attack penalties to make a single attack as if you had reach. I forget the name of it, but I used to use it on my warrior NPCs sometimes.

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Red Regent




10th Aug 2020, 3:01 AM

Lunge?

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Guest




10th Aug 2020, 2:19 AM

The specific rationale he used waaay back in his introduction was a combination of 'tall' things that increased his reach (there are ways) combined with 'short' flaws that canceled out the size increase but didn't remove the bonuses.

His reach is probably just two, maaaaybe three times as big as it should be. Maybe four with the right stance/maneuver. Enough to be notably useful in a fight, but not the level of extremes that Luffy's devil fruit shenanigans allow.

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Red Regent




10th Aug 2020, 4:00 AM

Dancing Blade Form (a fifth level martial stance from the Iron Heart discipline, in Tome of Battle) gives +5 feet of reach. Only functions on your own turn, so it doesn't help with attacks of opportunity.

Reach (a 2nd level psionic power for psions, wilders & psychic warriors) gives +5 feat of reach - he might have access to this effect via magic item. (Can you put a Dorje in a wand chamber?)

Pathfinder feat Lunge is good for 5 more feet, on your own turn only.

Three levels of Warshaper (PrC from Complete Warrior) gets you +5 feet of reach and a couple other benefits, though these apply "only when the warshaper is in a form other than her own" - although the precise meaning of that clause is a little vague. A really generous interpretation might let him get the benefit with a Hat of Disguise, or some similarly minor magic item.

The Aberration Blood + Inhuman Reach feat chain (Lords of Madness) gets you +5 feet, though it makes you look real weird (freakishly long arms). Arguably lets you qualify for the Extended Reach feat (Savage Species), which requires a tentacle-like appendage and would give +5 more.

The Willing Deformity + Deformity (Tall) feats (Heroes of Horror) together give +5 feet of reach, though they require you to be evil.

Aside from that... the spell Stretch Weapon sucks, he's probably not using it. The spell Blood Wind is kind of like reach (and it's quite cool), but it isn't actually, it just lets you make melee attacks at a distance - probably not what he's got. Same for the Bloodstorm Blade Prestige class. And I'm almost certain he's not a Master of Vipers.

So do the methods Zoro's using to get reach come from the fictional sourcebooks the comic uses? Probably at least in part. But they're not without precedent.

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Guest




10th Aug 2020, 10:33 AM

We know he has Deformity (Tall). It was mentioned that one of his feats made him over 7 ft tall by default, and required him to be evil.

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Otaku

Otaku




10th Aug 2020, 2:23 PM

Huh, this is one of those things where being an "outsider" makes me wonder why it is even a question. Dude who has already demonstrated an impressive physique and his talent in combat, and who uses decently sized-swords... his combat reach isn't going to be insane like Luffy's, or if he was using an even larger, longer weapon... but it is going to be pretty good.

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fellow

fellow




11th Aug 2020, 6:38 AM

In dnd, if they don't have anything special that increases reach, an epic level fighter with a sword can't attack any futher than a 1st level fighter with that same sword. Heck, they'd get the same reach with a fist. Reach is pretty static.

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Otaku

Otaku




11th Aug 2020, 11:05 AM

I'm not sure I follow, fellow. Just because tone can be a bit tricky to convey... I'm really asking with what I am about to say.

For the moment, ignore Character levels.

In fact, ignore D&D. In the real world, most weapons increase one's reach in combat. It is literally one of the reasons we use weapons.

Now, with that in mind, go ahead and think again in D&D terms but without worrying about Character Level. You're telling me that, unless I take certain Feats, a character's reach in combat - the distance from which they can attack - doesn't change regardless of the weapon they're using?

I'm assuming missile weapons and the like still can hit further away, but you're telling me that a guy swinging his fist has the same reach in combat as a guy swinging one-handed sword, as a guy using a polearm?

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Brainstorm




11th Aug 2020, 1:41 PM

Not fellow, but I'll try to answer as factually as I can.

Yeah, in the real world, a guy swinging a sword has more "reach" than a pugilist, and a spearman out-ranges both of them. This is measured by point-of-contact only - the tip of the sword plus a single arm's length is naturally longer than just an arm, ditto for the polearm.

In D&D, you aren't facing off against a single opponent like in a dramatic action scene in the movies. You're fighting another body in a 5 x 10 ft. rectangle, aka two 5 ft. squares butted up against one another. In my mind, it makes allowances for tight dodges and variances in effective fighting reach. A sword can cover most of the distance by itself, but it's also not unreasonable for an unarmed striker to cover the distance, punch good, then dance back out of range.

D&D is a war game made into a Tolkien simulator. It... creatively reinterprets combat, but not always in ways that make sense.

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Otaku

Otaku




11th Aug 2020, 6:37 PM

Okay, so as a side-effect the abstraction D&D uses for combat, the reach of an unarmed punch and a one-handed sword is the same. I don't like it, but I can understand why. If I'm going to bother with a map, I prefer going into more detail... then again, I'm a GURPS fanboy, so I basically just said "Water is wet." XP

Thanks for explaining, all!

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Guest




11th Aug 2020, 1:59 PM

Polrarms are reach weapons, actually. You get extra reach for using them. And fists have extra-bad reach rules by default, but you can take a feat to make them as effective as swords, reach-wise.

The thing is that normally, a guy using swords doesn't have exceptional reach, but Zoro does.

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Halosty45

Halosty45




11th Aug 2020, 2:10 PM

Unarmed doesn't have less reach by default, but it does provoke attacks of opportunity for other reasons. If it had less reach than 5 ft, you'd have to instead move into the square like tiny/smaller creatures.
But to Otaku's original question, in 3.5 the standard is: most weapons have 5 ft reach, 'reach' weapons have 10 ft, and unless you are larger nothing is statistically different than normal melee or one with reach. Anything from fist to dagger to greatsword to the standard spear or halberd doesn't have different reach. Longspears, glaives, and a smattering of other basically exactly the same polearms and a few exotic things have reach.
Ranged weapons are a different thing, because they don't have 'reach' but 'range'. The difference is there aren't opportunity attacks with ranged weapons (unless shenanigans of some sort are involved, but I don't remember how much of those are 3.5 and how much are pathfinder)

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Otaku

Otaku




11th Aug 2020, 6:45 PM

Yeah, so I'll definitely just chalk this up to how D&D does combat versus how I'm used to it from other games. Yes, I'm used to... well... ranged weapons having a range. In fact, I'm used to them having a half-damage range and max damage range (if applicable)... but even for melee weapons and such I'm used to them also having a "Reach" stat.

Then again, I'm also used to maps made of tessellating, 3-foot-diameter hexagons, "active" defenses, and one-second rounds in combat.

Again, thanks for explaining. And to anyone else, since there were multiple folks answering. It is great you can help someone with next-to-know D&D experience still enjoy this strip. :D

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zomg




10th Aug 2020, 2:27 AM

There are ranged weapons with less Reach than Luffy.

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darkening

darkening




10th Aug 2020, 7:29 AM

Pretty sure cragtop archers are the only ones out ranging luffy as the anime goes on lol.

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Guestron




10th Aug 2020, 12:07 PM

And Usopp. Usopp outranges everyone.

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Halosty45

Halosty45




10th Aug 2020, 12:26 PM

*Mumbles a more specific reply that includes spoilers so is instead extremely vague*

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Generic Greg




10th Aug 2020, 12:45 PM

HE SHOT THE SEAGULLS

THE SEAGULLS.


THE FLYING RATS HE SHOT THEM.

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Anvildude




10th Aug 2020, 5:52 PM

Yeah! Someone else who knows "Races of Stone"!

Goliaths really got the short end in their conversion to 5E- I'm planning on making a supplement for them, bringing in the Cragtop Archers, the Dawnsingers, and more.

Interestingly, that's the only 3.5 book I have. I don't even have the PHB.

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Hahahacker




10th Aug 2020, 5:47 PM

Gordon’s really wearing out his welcome, he’s not even fun to hate, just generally unpleasant to read about.

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Marvelous TK




10th Aug 2020, 10:26 PM

I know hating the GM is 'a thing', but that's a bit extreme!

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Generic Greg




10th Aug 2020, 10:51 PM

I think our friend here has his characters mixed out. Gordon's the GM, not that dickweed what with the blue text.

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Twooshort




11th Aug 2020, 7:34 AM

You reminded me of Manny in D&D Aangvanced with that "hating the GM is a thing". Ugh.

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