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Average Rating: 5
Number of people who have voted: 2


By the same author as Grand Line 3.5
Comments:

Mirage_GSM




12th Oct 2018, 3:42 AM
"diety"

You know, seeing "deity" written as "diety" always makes me think they are trying to lose weight...

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Departure_Dave




12th Oct 2018, 10:34 AM

Not with Sanji around. XD

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Gueist




12th Oct 2018, 8:09 AM

Say something about his hair !

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Generic Greg




12th Oct 2018, 12:22 PM

You know, when you think about, forcing a one of on a diplomacy check is actually really smart. When considering a mechanic, rolling a one should be as big an event as rolling a twenty, and carry a similar weight. As such, when in a situation like Luffy is in, forcing a one is a great idea, actually. In effect, he's not using diplomacy to its intended effect, instead using the fact he's rolling a one to force the GM / DM to have to make the failure have a big effect. In the example shown above, Luffy is essentially using the diplomacy roll to make a nat 20'd performance check, with the intent to trigger Buggy. He's ignoring using other checks, by going for diplo and trying to use the failure to expound upon what he would try to do anyway.

The big impact of this roll being a one is actually really important for another few reasons.

...A certain green chicken spawns from this event, after all.

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Anvildude




12th Oct 2018, 12:54 PM

Here's the thing. The attempt at "Diplomacy" isn't specifically an attempt at improving relations. It's an attempt at forcing someone to have a specific disposition towards you. If your intent is to piss someone off, and you fail your diplomacy roll, then the outcome should be that you've accidentally said something that they appreciate, and they like you more after.

At least, that's my take on it.

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SpoonyViking




13th Oct 2018, 11:17 AM

I agree, although I'd just make a failure not change the target's disposition in any meaningful way.

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DeadpanSal




14th Oct 2018, 1:32 PM

I disagree. Diplomacy is not just for improving relations or changing a disposition towards you. It's about manipulating NPC interpersonal relationships.

So that can mean generally improving relations, changing a disposition to a specific outcome, or turning people against each other. Souring a character to your own character doesn't need a roll, just flavor text. And making someone like you is relatively easy. Bribery works. But making the hostile kingpin who wants to kill you not only spare you but go after your enemies? That's diplomacy.

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kgy121




13th Oct 2018, 12:19 PM

The bigger thing is that in 3.5 Nat 1 and 20 do nothing on skill checks. Those are just numbers relating how well you do at the task, and there are no critical failures or successes other than being past the benchmark by a given amount, which can usually either act as a multiplier or trigger the failure condition.

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Barbarian "Diplomat"




13th Oct 2018, 12:50 PM

Diplomacy is a bit of a balancing act between "trying to get someone else to view people/things/events the way you want them to", "trying to make your previous/future actions be viewed as acceptable behavior where they otherwise would not", and "trying to make the other person act differently than they normally would".

If Buggy was a neutral NPC and Luffy rolled a 1 on a Diplomacy check to try and get him pissed off, then yeah, "having the NPC laugh it off or like Luffy more" could be the right play, as could "having the NPC ignore or try to avoid Luffy" or "Luffy influencing someone other than his intended target".

However, by this point, Buggy is an angry NPC with a vendetta against Luffy. He's already angry at Luffy, so he wouldn't even have too far to fall further into rage if Luffy tried to piss him off again, but it also wouldn't make sense for him to like Luffy all of a sudden for insulting him again. Instead, the better play here might be to "have Buggy become less emotional and better focus on the target of his anger, rather than raging out and losing sight of anything besides the target of his rage".

Personally, I really like it when a character trying to use Diplomacy has a Rage/Wrath ability, because then one of the consequences for a really bad Diplomacy check can be "the player talks themselves into or out of a Rage/Wrath", effectively acting like a Diplomacy form of Wild Magic Backlash, where it can have all kinds of unintended side effects.

...or, you can go for the Barbarian form of Diplomacy, "Speak softly and carry a big stick/sword/axe/gun/bazooka". Doesn't work as well in tightly-controlled noble settings, but it works just about every time out in more-chaotic environments (until they have a bigger stick/sword/axe/gun/bazooka).

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